#164 Who dies? The Atma or the body?
- Posted by SwaminiB
- Categories Podcast transcripts
- Date 8 March 2022
- Comments 0 comment
He was told by the doctors that he had two months to live. So, his daughter came to India to spend that time along with the rest of the family. Life’s knocks had embittered him and he had lost all faith in God. He was unwilling to see a counsellor nor listen to anything religious. The daughter wanted him to be cheerful but all her attempts at sharing some wisdom from the Bhagavad Gita led him to withdraw into a shell. Feeling helpless she asked me how we could help him.
I suggested that she ask her father if he had any unfulfilled wishes. He said no. Then, what would make him happy? What would make him feel like his presence had mattered? What was he most proud about? She said – providing for our family in difficult times and ensuring a decent education for the 3 children. And hence I suggested that as a family they talk about old times, all the memorable moments in his life. If her father veered and wallowed in his problems, it was important for him to express. Then, she could gently bring him back to what he had learnt, how he had grown and most importantly how he had provided for his family.
As a daughter, she could share what she had learnt from him. The life lessons that she and others had learnt by observing him she still held dear, and was passing on to his grandkids. Watching movies, playing his favourite songs, remembering happy times might lighten his mood. Perhaps his heart would soften, the smile would grow wider and there may be a twinkle in the eye. At some point in time if he is receptive, she could share what she understand about the framework of karma. One’s blessings and suffering in this lifetime is due to our karma, choices in this lifetime and previous lifetimes. Knowing that he is cared for, everyone wants him to be happy and wishes him well, might be enough for him. I also suggested that she pray for strength to deal with the impending loss and peace and strength for his onward journey. A few weeks later she called me to say that his last days were peaceful. On the day her father passed away he himself had asked for Om namah shivaaya to be played in a low volume. Although surprised, the family played it on loop trusting that the Lord would take care of their father’s onward journey.
Research about the five most common regrets shared by people nearing death were:
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“I wish I had the courage to live a life true to myself, not the life others expected of me.”
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“I wish I hadn’t worked so hard.”
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“I wish I’d had the courage to express my feelings.”
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“I wish I had stayed in touch with my friends.”
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“I wish that I had let myself be happier.”
To deal with death we have to understand what dies and what does not die. Is n’t it?
Who dies? The Atma or the body?
The short answer is the body dies. The Atma that is you can never die as the Atma is not limited by space nor time.
Then the question is – Are you the Atma or Are you the body? Who dies?
You are the Atma. The Bhagavad Gita reminds us that there is no reason for sorrow for death because the Atma cannot die but our experience and identity is that we are the body.
Tattvabodha is a foundational text in Vedanta which is a must listen for anyone interested in Vedanta as it explains and clarifies many terms
Tattvabodha asks the question and also provides the answer.
Atma kah?
Who is atma, the self?
And the answer is –
sthūla-sūkṣma-kāraṇa-śarīrād vyatiriktaḥ
saccidānandasvarūpaḥ san yastiṣṭhati sa ātmā.
One who remains different from the gross, subtle, and causal bodies and who remains as the limitless that is consciousness which is all fullness. That is Atma that is you.
The body is 3 fold and each definition has 4 aspects to it
– Material out of which each body is made –
– Components of each body
– Function of the body
– Nature of the body
sthūla-śarīraṁ kim?
What is gross body? The definition has 4 components:
pañcīkṛta-pañcamahābhūtaiḥ kṛtaṁ – This body which is made of the grossified five great elements – space, air, water, fire and earth and hence it can return to the elements.
satkarmajanyaṁ is born due to (past) good actions;
What is the function of the body?
sukha-duḥkhādi-bhogāyatanaṁ the abode for the experience of happiness, sorrow, etc., To serve as a temporary abode for all experiences. Only by residing in the body we can conduct our different interactions.
What is the nature of the body?
asti jāyate vardhate vipariṇamata apakṣīyate vinaśyatīti ṣaḍvikāravad-etat-sthūla-śarīram.
is endowed with the six-fold modifications of
– Asti – potential existence in the womb of the mother.
– Jāyate – birth
– Vardhate – once the body is born, it starts growing
– Viparinamate – After the body has become an adult body, remaining an adult, it undergoes various modifications.
– Apakshīyate – Decline or Ageing, growing old
– Vinashyati – Death of the body after which we cannot keep the body for long time.
जातस्य हि ध्रुवो मृत्युर्ध्रुवं जन्म मृतस्य च।
तस्मादपरिहार्येऽर्थे न त्वं शोचितुमर्हसि।।2.27।।
For that which is born death is certain, and for that which is dead, birth is certain. Therefore you ought not to grieve over that which cannot be altered.
The body is visible to you and others. The average life span ranges from 60 to 120 in different countries.
To summarise, the gross body is that which is made of the grossified five great elements, is born due to (past) good actions; the abode for the experience of happiness, sorrow, etc., is endowed with the six-fold modifications of “exists, is born, grows, undergoes change, decays, and dies”
sūkṣma-śarīraṁ kim?
What is the subtle body? This definition has 4 components:
apañcīkṛta-pañcamahābhūtaiḥ kṛtaṁ – The subtle body is that which is made of the ungrossified five great elements –
What is the material of the subtle body? Just as there are gross five elements, there are subtle five elements.
– Subtle Space
– Subtle Air
– Subtle Fire
– Subtle Water
– Subtle Earth
Although subtle all of this is matter and hence the body is material in nature.
What are its components? It has seventeen parts
pañca-jñānendriyā – five sense organs of knowledge – the ear for knowledge of sounds, the eye for knowledge of sights, the skin for knowledge of touch, the tongue for knowledge of taste, and the nose for knowledge of fragrances. This refers to the capacity of the organs and not to the actual physical organ which is a part of the gross body anyway.
pañca –karmendriyāṇi – Five organs of action by which we respond– hands for varieties of actions, feet for movement, organ of speech for expression, the genital organ for pleasure and procreation and the anus for evacuation. Again these are capacities of the five organs that pervade the actual physical organs of action.
pañca-prāṇādaya – Five fold pranas which is like an energy system that makes the functions of respiration, digestion, circulation, assimilation and evacuation possible.
manaścaikaṁ buddhiścaika
manas which is the seat of desires, buddhi, the intellect which is the deciding function, chittam which is the memory of experiences and finally the ahankara, the sense of I who holds its all together.
How did this subtle body come about?
satkarmajanyaṁ – is born of the (past) right actions,
What is its function?
sukha-dukhadi-bhoga-sadhanam the instrument for all the experience of pleasures, sorrows, etc as it is the subtle body which pervades the entire gross body. It helps us to transact in the world.
To summarise, The subtle body is that which is made of the ungrossified five great elements, is born of the (past) right actions, the instrument for the experience of pleasures, sorrows, etc., and that which has seventeen parts, viz., five sense organs of knowledge, five organs of action, the five pranas, the mind, and the intellect.
Sūkshma sharīram is evident and recognisable only for oneself and it is not available for others. What is in my mind, I know, what are my feelings I know, but you are not able to see my mind nor know my feelings nor my memory. Because it is available only for me and not for others, it is called subtle body – not concrete like gross body.
And so when a person dies, only the gross body is no longer available as an abode for the subtle body. The subtle body or sukshma sharira leaves the body which is no longer livable. The subtle body is like the subtle body that you visualise in your dream of yourself. It travels across lifetimes and depending on the karma that fructifies is reborn. The right word then is that the jiva has left the body.
Some of you can now appreciate the importance given to refining the mind, neutralising it of ragas and dveshas, thinking clearly and having a relationship with Bhagavan because we only carry the mind forward across lifetimes. Sometimes we see children who are every cranky and sometimes we see children who are calm and peaceful by nature indicative of the mind that they have brought forward from previous lifetime.
kāraṇaśarīraṁ kim?
What is the causal body?
anirvācyānādyavidyārūpaṁ That which is in the form of indefinable, beginningless ignorance. The material out of which the causal body is made is called causal matter which is the subtlest form of matter. Although called Avidya, ignorance, the word prakrti is also used.
What are its components?
śarīra-dvayasya kāraṇa-mārtaṁ It is the cause of the Sthūla Sharīram and Sūkshma Sharīram in seed form. Just as the seed is the potentiality for the tree so too the causal body is the seed for the subtle body and gross body.
Kārana sharīram evolves into Sthūla sharīram and Sūkshma sharīram just as the seed evolves into the tree, when the karma of the jiva, individual fructifies. Along with avidya, ignorance is present the millions of karma – both punya and papa standing in the individual’s account.
In each lifetime different deposits of karma fructify.
because of law of conservation of matter – matter can never be produced or destroyed. Matter always exists. Karana sharira has been present since beginningless time but it can come to an end with self realisation.
What else?
satsvarūpājñānaṁ nirvikalpaka-rūpaṁ yadasti tat kāraṇa-śarīraṁ.
ignorance of one’s own nature that is absolute existence and is free from duality or division (such as subject and object) is (called) causal body.
During srshti, creation out of Kārana sharīram will arise Sthūla sharīram and Sūkshma sharīram. During Pralayam, Sthūla Sharīram and Sūkshma Sharīram will go back to Kārana Sharīram.
What is the nature of this karana sharira?
Kārana sharīram, the causal body has got the longest life compared to even Sūkshma sharīram. Sūkshma sharīram goes back into unmanifest form during pralayam, which is resolution of all the forms including the whole universe. Kārana sharīram cannot be destroyed even during Pralayam.
Since time is cyclical for Hindus, there are 4 yugas which form a kalpa which is roughly 4.32 billion years. The Karana sharira becomes one with Bhagavan only when self realisation occurs. While Sthūla Sharīram is available for all to perceive, Sūkshma Sharīram is evident only for me and not for others but kārana Sharīram is not evident to me nor others. Hence it is called Nirvikalpa Svarūpam – indistinguishable.
The causal body then becomes the storehouse for the sharira-s.
To summarise the causal body is that which is in the form of indefinable, beginningless ignorance, the cause for the two bodies (gross and subtle), ignorance of one’s own nature that is absolute existence and is free from duality or division (such as subject and object).
Every individual has got Sthūla Sharīram, Sūkshma Sharīram and Kārana Sharīram.
In Hinduism death is an event. It is not the end.
Jivas go through a cycle of death and rebirth depending on which deposits of karma fructify.
Bhagavan Krishna tells us
वासांसि जीर्णानि यथा विहाय नवानि गृह्णाति नरोऽपराणि।
तथा शरीराणि विहाय जीर्णान्यन्यानि संयाति नवानि देही।।2.22।।
Just as a person gives up old clothes and takes up new ones, so does the self, the one who dwells in the body, give up old bodies and take others which are new.
Sometimes rebirth may happen soon after death or sometimes the jiva may go to svarga or naraka for some time before rebirth on earth or sometimes if there are too many regrets and unfulfilled wishes, the jiva may hang around. Hence it is important for family to perform the last rites which form prayers for the onward journey of the jiva.
Death is sometimes colloquially referred to as moksha because the person is free from the body but the real meaning of the word moksha is freedom from a sense of bondage here and now. One need not wait for or after death. If the person has been studying Vedanta with a traditional guru and has self knowledge there is no more rebirth for the jiva as the karana sharira which was made up of avidya is no longer present as the seed. Only this lifetime continues. After death of the physical body, the jivan mukta, the person who was free while living, is one with Bhagavan.
As is evident, the Atma can never die. Only the gross body dies and is merged with the elements. The jiva, individual lives on as jiva or merges with Bhagavan.
In the light of this Vedanta teaching, you can truly say like James Bond – No time to die.
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